The Answers to Your Insightful Questions
By Kenrick Cleveland May 6th, 2011 Announcements, Language Patterns 21 Comments
You Guys Rock – all you JEDI Warriors! I am so impressed with the quality of questions that have been rolling in. In case you missed the webinar and transcript, you can still download it
http://darkside.s3.amazonaws.com/Webinar.zip
When you are done reading the answers, please leave a comment or question. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Q & A
I can’t understand how asking the question or something similar to… “what used to be true but no longer is” could be used in any conversation. It seems like it wouldn’t be congruent with the communication and context unless your were in a therapy type setting.
How do you get around that? -Jay
You know how magicians (close up magic with coins, cards, ropes etc.) always have a story to tell as they start their routine? Every wondered why?
Ever watched a stage hypnotist? Ever watched the same person 4 or 5 times? If you did, you would find that they follow the same “patter”, the same way of doing things. Heck, I used to do the same thing when I started. It’s also why sales people follow scripts – it’s because they are relatively sure they will get everything in and pretty much in the right order (or so they think).
We can learn a lot from magicians and hypnotists. We can learn to use stories to distract the attention of the person and do what we want to do. We can also learn to use junk-o-logic to our advantage. To do this, we purport to show something of value to the person if they’ll but permit us a couple of questions.
Such as this: Listen, one of the things I most enjoy is helping someone truly know what the best thing for them is. Cause either way, this can be the start of something great between us where by any time you have a need to know something in this field, you can always turn to me for the answer. And right now, I’d like to show you something if you would permit me… something that I think will amaze you. I’m going to ask you two questions and you’ll be amazed at what you will learn. First, what is something that is no longer true but used to be…
You get the idea, right?
Remember, it is in the comfort you can learn to have in setting up situations like this that you will influence more people, more easily. Get comfortable asking questions and digging around where others are afraid to go. Your persuasion ability will soar
I’m a little confused about how to find out the location of “what’s no longer true that used to be”. How do we get this info from someone? Thanks Kenrick! -Jill
Believe it or not, you just ask. But if you do so with the expectation that they will answer, all the better.
If they act confused, you can point out that for example when people are sad they often look down and when they are happy they look up. Ever wonder what they are looking at? Well, they are looking at pictures and feeling feelings of past events or even imagined events. For example, if you think of a house you used to live in but don’t any more, you can do that, right? And if you compare that to where you live right now, how do you tell them apart? Point to the old house. Now point to where you live now. Ok, when you think of the old house, you are sure that you used to live there but now you don’t any longer, right? (As you say that, you point to where the picture of the old house is, where they pointed.)
To further answer your question, don’t get caught up in the location. Just get them to identify the feeling. You can point anywhere to anchor it. Just point to the same place each time.
Sometimes {and I know I am like this} I am not sure where something is so do not think I could point at the location. Would it work just to watch someone’s eyes as they were describing the event “that was once true and no longer is” and then point to where they were looking? Nice to hear your programs again -Ray
Absolutely. Read my answer above and add pointing to where they are looking, to it. The bottom line is you are getting them to associate a belief of no longer true, to a point you point at in space.
Thank you for making me aware of this pattern; hopefully I will be aware when someone attempts to use this pattern and be able to defend myself. As far as using this pattern I suspect I have not advanced far enough with persuasion to be effective in a positive manner. So my question is which of your courses would bring me up to speed to this level? I always appreciate your commitment to using persuasion with integrity and that is why I do my best to follow every call and continue to use the program I originally purchased from MaxPersuasion. Thank you. -Thomas
Well, Thomas, you are well on your way to be able to keep people from using this one against you. As to learning to use it, stay tuned, I think I’ll be able to help with that.
I can see how this will in improve my Coaching business 100%. Could this be used on the phone? without the pointing direction? (covertly)? -Desmond
Excellent, a budding Jedi warrior. 
Yes, it absolutely can. I would do so using a change in your voice for each. Then when reminding them about one or the other, use that same tone of voice. Great question.
I’d like to know how to install good, positive attitudes in people… like when I’m teaching a group of young men in a scout troop, for instance. These persuasion skills are great for sales and I think could be great for teaching and training. -John
(Speaking to the scout troop)… What is something that is no longer true but used to be. For example, you used to want little toy cars and now you graduated to wanting a cool remote car… something like that. Think about it. For me, I think about in the past, all I wanted to do was watch TV instead of get into the woods and experience nature. Now I love it. So when I think about just sitting a watching TV, I see it here (point) and immediately think that this is no longer true, but used to be.
So all of you come up with something? If so, shout it out – ready 1, 2, 3_____________. Great, now point tpo where this thing that is no longer true for you but used to be, is. (you point again to you spot).
Excellent, now, when I point like this (point to your spot), I want you to point to your spot and think, no longer true but used to be. Ready, go (point).
Great, now, I’d like us to think about our upcoming weekend. To really have fun, we all must relax and have fun. Imagine for a moment that there is something that you are nervous about that prevents you from just relaxing and having fun. (point at your spot) and say, and just notice how it is no longer true and you can’t wait to relax and have fun.
You can apply this to whatever you need. Hopefully you get the idea.
First off, how can I immerse myself in your techniques. Secondly, how would this technique be included in a typical business conversation. I can imagine the prospect thinking… “why the heck would you want to know if there is something that used to be true, but not true anymore?” Thanks, and hopefully you are building us up to introduce a fantastic new product or reintroduce a product. Thanks Kenrick! -Scott
To answer your first question, you need to role play this in your own head. Work on coming up with every possible eventuality you can. In so doing, you learn the ins and outs of this. In real life, when you become aware of a chance to use it, you’ll be far more capable.
Another way is to use Learning State Sessions to help install the information more quickly. I’ve given some of these with my live programs and some of my recorded ones as well. And I intend to do more. They work to make the learning much easier and quicker.
Hey Kenrick, Are hand gestures important when you are elicitating their no longer true, i mean “pointing to my right = their left”? Thanks – Neil
In a word, no. It’s more important that you elicit a response for something they are sure is no longer true but used to be.
I think you were saying that the use of the pattern is simply asking the questions about identifying and then pointing to it (either literally or figuratively). Is that all it takes to install it in that place? The act of pointing? or implying the pointing? -Scott
The pointing is the anchor. It secures it for your use. Using it means to point and fire off that anchor when talking about what you want them to think is no longer true. Example, a competitors offer is better, the desire to think about it etc, etc.
As powerful as this is, there is quite a bit of additional material that would make it easier for you to know when/how to use this. For example, it would probably be better to use other patters to set this up effectively. But the nice thing is that even if you just use this, you will start to get good results and learn when and how to use it better.
Hello Kenrick, Thank you for the great info. Seems really easy. I want to use this on myself. Let’s say i am having trouble learning a new skill and it has grown into doubt, frustration and the like. I find something in my past that is no longer true, a good one with a strong sense that I am really happy that it is no longer true. Then I take this doubt frustration and the like and put there. Good so far? Then how would I install the good in it’s place? Find something that I learned or achieved before and now know and can do and put the pos ideas about the skill I’m tryin to learn in that place or is there a better way to install it? Well thank you again for the great info and take care sir. – Greg
Exactly. Spot on. You might also experiment with, “something that is absolutely true”. Like the law of gravity – but the more meaningful it is to you, the better.
Thanks great as always. Did I get it right that it doesn’t matter where I point, as long as it’s anchored that way? -Henrik
You sure did. You are absolutely right.
By saying dark side 1, you are presupposing dark side 2… This makes my life complete
In the Dark Side 1, all their is, is about an hour or so of information on destructive patterns. But I didn’t talk about what would be needed to clean yourself up if ever you had been a victim of any of these, nor how to use them (and other related skills) if you felt you need to defend yourself, nor many other things that would make you far more capable to use advanced patterns in dark ways (or light) to get what you want. There is so much that needs to be said. Has the time come for Dark Side II? We’ll see.
Quite a lot f the things you teach seem t have associations with more metaphysical or perhaps energy oriented stuff, Do you ever address the concept of projecting energy, using what could be interpereted as energy based tools directly without the NLP angle? -Eddy
Yes I do. Interesting timing that question.
Eddy continues – From what I have read of your work on the net, you seem to have a good grasp of the other side of life so to speak, and it reflects in your teachings.
You’re right, I do. Thanks for noticing.
Eddy again: How much of therapeutic intervention do you think is down to the language, and how much to intention and the energy that is focused behind your words? I sometimes think that intention and focused thought / energy account for the majority of it, especially as you become more skilful. Many thanks for the webinar.
It for sure all starts with the thoughts and energy. A whole lot can be done with that. The words actually help us to zero in our energy even better – they work like a feedback loop, one enhances the other.
Great questions and comments.
Can I use this on myself, knowing that it is a “mind trick”; How can I use this to get rid of low self-esteem and then install feelings of self-love and high self-worth? After listening to the end of the call, I don’t want to get rid of anything until I know how to install a positive thought afterwards. – Lisa
I have so much to say on this but here, I’ll keep it short. First, this not really a mind trick. It is a reality. A trick is something that isn’t real (a disappearing woman, a body cut in two done by a magician, etc.) This is as real as your memory and ability to think.
Next, don’t worry so much about not getting rid of something until you can install something else. You won’t break. If something comes in to fill the void that you don’t like, you can just get rid of that too. And if you read my other responses, I talk a bit about installing things.
I was and am fascinated by the unbelievable power of this stuff. I must admit that I am the first one that should use this on myself. I have to lose some weight, to get healthier. I have ordered one of your courses and i never finished it. I wonder how to do some of this stuff. I will have to listen again to get the full idea and effect of how this stuff works. Thank you for sharing. I will listen to this again, maybe twice. I wanted to get some thoughts on paper before you pulled this material. Thank you for your continued kindness and sharing – Jerry
It is fascinating. After more than 30 years of studying, teaching and working with this material, it still fascinates me.
When you think of how you need to change physically, and you think of things that have stopped you in the past, is there now starting to be similarities between those things and what you know is no longer true but used to be… until they are one and the same? And if you lock a picture of the new you right into your mind, where what you are sure about is, do you think it will help as you take action each day to move in that direction. Remember you don’t need perfection, just need to have the balance of your day be 51% in the right direction. That’s all it takes to progress.
And yes, listen over and over. Advance your knowledge. That’s how to do it.
I’m in financial sales and this techniques appears to be useful in overcoming objections. When I’m with a prospect/client, how do I nonchalantly bring up “something that used to be true but is no longer true” discussion so that it is part of the conversation? Otherwise it comes off as peculiar and irrelevant. – Tim
It is incredibly useful in financial sales. We have a good number of advisers in our coaching program.
The question isn’t so much how do you nonchalantly bring it up, because this presupposes that you have to hide this. I suggest thinking about this like hiding in the open. Read my responses on how to bring this up and you’ll get a good idea.
The other thing is, you are far better off learning to use other covert methods to direct the conversation in such a way that the person eliminates anything other than what you want them to conclude, but believe it is their idea. I may have a way to help you learn more about these things.
Don’t forget to leave a comment or question. Just fill out the box below and click submit.
21 Comments
Thanks Kenrick
Q&A is as helpful as the webinar itself. Thanks
Ok, could YOU do a conversation representing both sides, using this technique. And could you do it in the framework of a High Neew Worth prospect and Iam working to get his $5 million od asset to manage for him. That is reality. So, can you do this and handle the oddodities that come from him?
Thanks, Allen
Hi Gary,
I’ll have something shortly for you that should help you considerably. Stay tuned.
Until then, you start by considering how you might be able to fit it into your discussion. Also remember that not all tools should be used in all cases. There are many additional things that can be done as well.
That said, start in and see where you can work it in.
Knowing others are struggling with it too, takes some of the perfectionistic pressure off. And that should ironically make it easier to learn. Thank you for doing this, Kenrick!
James
You are right James – perfect isn’t necessary. Also, it will help to relax and be casual about it or you will come across like you are trying to “do” something to them.
The pattern has SOOOO many uses, it’s incredible.
Keep practicing.
By email, Scott wrote: I realize that this has been done to me..most likely ‘naturally’ as the people that have done it are not trained. Even the military.
Will this course cover how to install the opposite…the positive?
I will love to learn more!
My response: You would be amazed to see how many people are writing saying they believe it has been done to them… and much nastier patterns as well. So don’t assume that it was done by an untrained person. They might have had just enough to be dangerous.
And yes, I will be making available the way to clean yourself up if you have had patterns used on you.
And if you are one of the more daring types, you need to know that if you want to wrestle in the mud, you will get dirty and you need to know how to clean up afterwards.
Matthew wrote by email: What do I do when I feel totally overwhelmed and don’t believe I’m getting it?
My response: Just relax and breathe. I recommend you study until you start feeling like you are not getting it, then push about 5 more minutes – then take a break. Clear your head and come back to it later. This also helps install the material more deeply making it easier to use in the future.
I’m in financial sales and this techniques appears to be useful in overcoming objections. When I’m with a prospect/client, how do I nonchalantly bring up “something that used to be true but is no longer true” discussion so that it is part of the conversation? Otherwise it comes off as peculiar and irrelevant. – Tim
Kenrick responds: It is incredibly useful in financial sales. We have a good number of advisers in our coaching program.
The question isn’t so much how do you nonchalantly bring it up, because this presupposes that you have to hide this. I suggest thinking about this like hiding in the open. Read my responses on how to bring this up and you’ll get a good idea.
The other thing is, you are far better off learning to use other covert methods to direct the conversation in such a way that the person eliminates anything other than what you want them to conclude, but believe it is their idea. I may have a way to help you learn more about these things.
Tim continues: The last sentence of your response has me intrigued. How do I learn more about these things you refer to? Thanks so much.
Kenrick: Stay tuned.
Kenrick:
Thank you so much for doing this! My question got answered twice via other people asking the same thing, and I’m absolutely delighted. I can see how much difference this will make in my life, earnings and fitness just over the next few weeks.
I’ve gotten how to do it for myself, and I hope everyone else who reads the blog or listened to the webinar uses it for themselves. That one piece of coaching will make this a better world for us all!
Great info, thanks for sharing. How do you anchor in writing?
Hi Joe,
Anchoring, in it’s most technical use, it’s not real easy to do in writing, but there is still much that can be done.
Left me give you the definition of anchoring: A unique stimulus paired with a strong emotional state. So you can see that timing a unique stimulus would be difficult to do since you can not see the reader.
That said, let’s discuss why “anchoring” is so powerful. The main thing persuaders are really wanting to do is to elicit a powerful emotional state that will make the persuading easier. And that is VERY easy to do in writing.
So concentrate on eliciting powerful emotions that will move your reader in the direction you want to take them. Better still would be to lay out your logical progression and overlay emotional states on top of it that will make it easy for people glide right along through your presentation. I taught that to my coaching group earlier this year and it is creating ultra powerful presentations.
When you want to re-trigger the emotion you elicited in your writing (“fire the anchor” in NLP speak), you can do so by simply referring to what you used to elicit it i.e. a story or example you used.
I hope this points you in the right direction.
Gary wrote by email: Thanks so much Kenrick
Could this be used to end long time physical additions , like smoking? If so how would you do this to your self?
My response: It sure could be one of the pieces a person uses. To get into how to do a therapeutic change like that is a bit outside the scope of this discussion, so I’ll leave it for another time. The bottom line is that you can use this and I’d start with changing the underlying reasons for the smoking. Change the belief that makes smoking useful/relevant. Deal with the secondary gains of smoking.
Randall wrote by email:
I think you are amazing from the little I have encountered so far. I listened to your Belief Destroyer pattern and wanted to ask a question.
This may be outside your field, but I am curious to know if one can or should utilize this pattern for someone who has a limiting belief that they don’t want, but which is part of their personality.
I have a friend in an unhappy marriage. He has to work himself up to “going over threshold” with a woman. He says he suffers “intense guilt” if he thinks about cheating, because his mother used to talk bad about his philandering father. And it seems he has a belief he is bad if he starts moving outside the rules of his unhappy marriage.
My question is this: if I used the Belief Destroyer pattern would it alter his personality in negative ways? Is it sometimes better not to change people for “nlp ecology” reasons?
He says he is miserable in his marriage, but has a future date for a divorce. He is working himself up to it, and say the guilt is terrible.
Your insight is welcome…
My response:
It sounds to me like you are trying to take responsibility for his guilt and encourage him to cheat. From my perspective, this is not the best way to go about this. (Now, from a Dark Side perspective, if you wanted to hurt him, you could encourage him to cheat, then remind him of just what a terrible person he is to have done it. Then when he is in pain, install the need to confess and link to future events. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS, just pointing it out so people can see how this is done and can avoid it being done to them.)
Back to your question.
If you really want to help him, just be a friend. Explore with him why he has his current beliefs. Ask if he thinks all men have the same ones and what would be the difference between having and not having some of his beliefs. Ask about what he thinks life would be as a man if he had a different set of beliefs. A few well timed conversations around this would be very helpful indeed. It would either help him to try and work things out in his relationship (not a bad a idea if he hasn’t yet really tried) or show him that things have passed the point of no return. Either way, it will be him doing the work, not you.
Further, from my perspective, helping someone break a vow is not a good thing. When he is ready, and can take no more, he will do what is necessary. Until then, adding insult to injury by cheating only worsens the problem.
I could go on and on about this, but I’m hoping this gives you some pointers as well as shows a bit more about the Dark Side of Persuasion for those who want deeper insights.
Hi Athena,
Thanks for your comment and I’m glad it will help.
[quote comment="71541"]Kenrick:
Thank you so much for doing this! My question got answered twice via other people asking the same thing, and I’m absolutely delighted. I can see how much difference this will make in my life, earnings and fitness just over the next few weeks.
I’ve gotten how to do it for myself, and I hope everyone else who reads the blog or listened to the webinar uses it for themselves. That one piece of coaching will make this a better world for us all![/quote]
Grinch3 wrote by email:
Well, first of all, remember we are not “ordering” the person to change or accept an idea. We are inducing them to do so. To that end, it feels like their idea. So, one problem solved.
Amnesia has it’s uses though, that’s for sure.
First, it is important you really get the distinction I made above. Your presupposition that you have caused them to accept something that they would not normally and would change back to the way they used to think if they believe you had anything to do with it, will cause you to have less success than you would have had otherwise in persuasion situations. So work on really thinking about what I wrote. If you chew on it a bit, you will get it, and when you do, you will find your persuasion ability will have jumped through the roof.
And, what I’ve just described has HUGE implications for anyone wishing to understand the Dark Side applications and advanced strategies.
This response will definitely get many peoples wheels a turning.
In response to your other questions, stay tuned, more coming very shortly.
hey Kenrick,
It just occured to me but is it possible to create something new by anchoring first something that is new. (that used to be false but is true now), and firing the anchor when elicting something we want to “share”… an idea (Inception), belief…
The pattern is close to the pattern in the dark side 1, and seems interesting since we can’t do everything with DS1 pattern.
Another thing is that while it’s possible to use the pattern on oneself, it’s scary and interesting. but in my case, I want to go back to the situation I was when I was younger : more popular, more beautiful, more powerful, more social…
Using your patterns, I’d need to find something that changed and anchor it, then elict it, but is there pattern using the past you want to get back to as the anchor?
Thanks for sharing your webminar anyway, and I encourage you sharing the autodefense for dark side patterns…(when you spread a virus, don’t keep the antivirus for yourself)
Kenrick…
Could you please tell us the best way to study this material in order to lock it in.
Do you use ” mind maps”?How did you go about this,or how would you go about doing this today in the shortest time possible to make it practical to you?A plan of attack so to speak!Do you take one skill at a time ,chew on it, and go out and use it until its fully digested?
Paul in Canada
Hi Oliver – (regarding using the pattern when sharing…) absolutely, that is one of the ways I talk about using this pattern. And it rocks.
Regarding your second question… I would recommend setting a new goal for the future. We will never recapture the past, but we can create whatever future we set our minds to and follow with action to make it happen.
Hi Paul,
Great question. That is one of the reasons I am releasing the Dark Side 2.
L&S sessions are great ways to absorb and learn the skills. Mind maps work great too. Most important is that you need to have it laid out in a way that makes learning and using it possible.
You don’t have much longer to wait.
Hi Kenrick. I wanted to email this to you, but couldn’t find an email address I thought would be appropriate for this, so I picked the blog entry related to it to comment on.
Yesterday, I had someone try the “No longer true but used to be” pattern on me with what I am sure is malicious intent. We don’t like each other very much, to put it bluntly. We work together, and he is extremely ambitious. Not the admirable kind, mind you, but the kind of ambition that says “I’m going to get ahead and damn the toes I have to step on to do it.” One day, out of the blue, he comes up to me and says “Hey Jon, lemme ask you something. What can you think of that used to be true but no longer is?”
I immediately picked up on it. I’ve been following your blogs and newsletters long enough to know your personal history with this pattern and what it can do to a person if fired off correctly. I wasn’t about to become a victim to this guy. What he wasn’t counting on was that I knew about it and also knew enough about him to fire a counter offensive. He’s recently divorced, has changed to a different shift, and moved from no less than three different areas in the company, so I didn’t waste time. I was going to use a snap of the fingers as an anchor, and this is what I said:
Let’s see, you used to be married, now you’re not ,
You used to be on second shift, now you’re not ,
You used to work in [Area #1], now you don’t ,
You used to work in [Area #2], now you don’t ,
You used to work in [Area #3], now you don’t ,
You used to be able to get and achieve an erection, now you can’t ,
And the next time you try this bulls**t on me, you might find that your ability to succeed in this company might be the same.
He just sat there with a glazed look in his eyes. I got up and walked away.
I thought you might enjoy that.
-Jon
P.S. Just to add, after each “You used to…” line, I snapped my fingers. When I said “…you might find that your ability to succeed in this company…” I also snapped.
Sorry, didn’t see this at first.
Excellent use of the skills. He’s probably still shaking his head and wondering what happened. LOL
It was great you were prepared in advance for this. That’s why I created the program.
Great job.